Timothy Zercher 0:00

Well, Don, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate you taking the time.

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 0:03

Thank you for having me, Tim.

Timothy Zercher 0:05

Absolutely. So you bring such a unique perspective as both a BCBA and an autism mom. How does that intersection shape the work that you do today? And how does that shape how you got into this field smoke?

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 0:18

Great question. I really didn't identify in the beginning that I had a unique intersectionality that kind of set me apart in the field. I just knew that any hat I was wearing, I didn't full feel completely in that role because I knew that there was another role that I may have not been considering in the moment. So a lot of people ask me, did you become a BCBA because your son was autistic? No, it just really happened by design. I was in an ABA program while starting to see the early signs of autism in my son. And I think that is what led to the diagnosis because if I had never worked with children on the spectrum, I wouldn't be able to know what those signs look like. So it just really happened all at the same time. But I was able to advocate differently differently and connect with parents on a different scale because when I would come into their home, I didn't go straight into, all right, what are the target behaviors? Let's get into skill acquisitions. Where's the data? I came in like, how was last night? Did he sleep? Did you guys go out on that picnic this weekend you were talking about? How's your mom? You know, how are the other kids? I would always remember their names and just talk to them as a mom first, and then we can get into the therapy part. I guess sometimes we forget to kind of pair with the family as well. Because if the family isn't okay, nothing is going to really work. You're like, nobody's gonna want run your treatment plans. So before I even knew what I was doing, before cultural humility was even ethical cold, that's how I was starting because I was all really trying to build a community. I was in the thick of it myself with my own child, and I was learning the skills. So I was just putting it all together, mixing it in a pot. And when I started doing more public speaking, I realized, like, oh, that's my superpower. That is something that I bring to the table that's unique. That's why people want to work with me and they still message me on Facebook, even though their kids are 15 and 16 years old now. And so I wanted to continue that method of learning in providing supervision. So now when I provide supervision to my BCBAs, we start with how are you making the parents feel? How are you including the family? How are you, is this socially valid? Let's talk about social validity for the first week straight before we get into the task list. Because those are the things that you need to build. That's the rapport you need to build first. So they will follow your behavior plan. So they won't cancel the session and they will show up to parent training. All the things that we need them to do in order for our services to be effective, it starts with pairing with the families. And everybody has a unique intersectionality. You just gotta lean into it.

Timothy Zercher 3:12

Absolutely. Absolutely. And if we show up genuinely, it's often easier to call that than if we're pretending, right? If we put on the BCBA face, which makes complete sense. So you have been vocal about making ABA more accessible and more relevant to underserved communities. Where do you think the work the field still has the most work to do?

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 3:32

I think more people just need to know about this science and that we are here. So I just did a masterclass at FAMU University, which is a historically black college and university. And right now, that is my like focus and my goal is to reach as many universities, but specifically black colleges, and catching them early. A lot of the BCBAs, I know they kind of fell into this career. They found out about it after they had already tried other things. If somebody would have told me fresh out of high school, you can become an RBT, I would have had so many more years in the field. I would have sharpened my skills. So I think we need to promote the field more. And it can't just be within the echo chamber. We love our research, we love our journals and our articles, but it's only garnering a small subscription of readers. So that's why I like disseminating on social media, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. I don't mind being silly. I don't mind not taking myself so seriously. Like people feel like, oh, you're a scientist, you have to be all snooty and tightened up and buttoned up. And there is a time for that. But when you want to make this science appealing to the masses, and you have to meet them where they are. And it's not about using the behavior jargon, it's about understanding what is the pain point for these parents, for the schools, for the teachers, the educators, for the clients, and meeting them where they are in comparison to some of the other professions. You have RNs, it's five million of them. You have social workers, there's 200,000 social workers, mental health professionals, 400,000, BCBAs, 80,000. And there's been a rapid increase within the last five years because prior to that, it was like four of us. So we're still not widely known. Like you're not going to turn on TV and the main character is a BCBA. So we really need to disseminate in a way that it feels natural. Like you want a kid to say, When I grow up, I want to be a BCBA. So I also started speaking at career fairs, at my kids' schools, at other people's kids' schools. So people can see that representation that, yeah, the lawyers, the doctors, the judges, the psychologists, but there is another sub-specialty that you can get in where you can still help people. So it needs to be that representation, and we need to build more of a community as to like why you would want to work with us, even if you don't have a loved one on the spectrum. I can help you in your business. I can help you with your company. I can help you with safety. If you guys are, you guys are having a lot of liability, fall insurance, or just whatever problem you have, there is a solution using applied behavior analysis, but that comes with people knowing who you are, what you do, and explaining it in a way that makes sense to them.

Timothy Zercher 6:30

Yeah. So to dig a little deeper on that, because I know a big part of your platform is taking ABA kind of beyond the usual professional circles and into those more mainstream spaces. You talked about why it's so important to you, but what happens to the industry when it stays inside its own bubble? What's the cost?

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 6:49

When it stays within its own bubble, we do the same damage. So I feel like a lot of us now who've been in the field a good 10 years, we have some horror stories. We've had some, oh my gosh, I can't believe I got through that. And if we continue to do the same thing, we're gonna get the same results. So we're gonna get the same people coming into the field. I remember when I got into the field, I felt like I didn't belong. Not only because I'm a woman of color, but because I wasn't really good with research and I wasn't good in measurement classes, and I just felt like, you know what, this is not for me. This is out of my league, but now I'm a BCBA, I'm killing it, I'm doing a great job. So just really bringing in the people who feel like they don't belong, especially the ones who can relate to our clients the best. Like I love neurodiverse or neurodivergent clinicians coming into the field because they can relate on a deeper level. But what accommodations are you willing to make as a board to make it accessible for them to come in? I want to see more people of color coming in. There is less than 6% of black BCBAs, but the population that we serve is diverse. So, how do we get them into the field and get them ready to pass this exam, ready to finish this master's program that nearly took me out? It's not easy. Nothing about this field is easy, but we have some great clinicians out there who don't know about it. And until we get them in, we're gonna see the same thing in ABA. We're gonna see people calling us abusive, people calling us, you know, all of the rhetoric that you get with ABA. If we get a new culture coming in that's pushing in cultural humility, cultural responsiveness, social validity, person-centered planning, all of these things, and that's gonna shift the field and doing more research on that, that's gonna help shift the field as well.

Timothy Zercher 8:50

Absolutely. I love that. I love that. Shifting gears a little bit, since we're an agency that specializes in ABA and behavioral health marketing, we always ask some marketing questions. First, what works best for you right now outside of word of mouth when it comes to acquiring new clients, new partners?

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 9:07

I love doing work for free first. And I start with just booking a room at the library, sending out a flyer. Hey, if you want to do some parent training and learn how to teach new skills, if you want to learn how like the functions of behavior and just kind of get the like so that helps with word of mouth, but I just go ahead and give it out for free, whether that's working with schools, working with churches, working with team parenting groups, whatever it is, I just give it out for free first. And then I also give it out for free on YouTube, and that builds that credibility. People like you, they know you, they trust you, they want to work with you. Or when they find out that they need you, you're the first person that's on their minds. And if you're consistently being that person, setting yourself up as that person who is the expert in that area, whether it's Facebook posts, blog posts, just scheduling a virtual training once a month for free, or just speaking with your community leaders, that is what's going to help with building that clientele, whatever your clientele is. Like right now, my clientele is more speaking kids, not necessarily getting more clients. So that may look different than if you want to get more clients. Going to those pop-up resource fairs, but not just being a person with a table asking if you can have five minutes to get the mic and drop some gems on some behavior change strategies that they can walk home and use in the moment. That's going to set you apart from everyone who's just handing out fidget toys. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but what else can you do to set yourself apart? So for me, it was the social media piece. It was getting on stage, it was just going to my kids' career fairs and, you know, going on the radio where people typically don't have access to ABA. That's where I would go.

Timothy Zercher 11:05

That makes complete sense. I love that. I think that's one of those things that people forget is just differentiating yourself and demonstrating your value before you ask for something. I think a lot of people are basically they go to those fairs and they just ask people to marry them all day long. And that's that's not how it works. You need to date, to have conversations, and then you can ask them to marry you and make you their BCBA, right? And it's not gonna happen until there's a good reason, until you've given them something to trust.

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 11:31

And you know what, Tim? That's where that parent intersectionality comes in. Because there have been so many therapists that I've talked to that I was like, okay, I'm gonna start with you. I'm gonna work. But as a parent, you have a million other things on your mind, on your list, other kids, you're working on yourself. So sometimes it takes that, like, wait, wait, who is that one person that's gonna make my life a little bit easier? Because she stood out or they stood out in that way. It's not always a all right, let's sign on the dotted line because I still have a psychiatrist appointment and speech therapy and on this side of town and doing all these other things.

Timothy Zercher 12:10

So and I haven't slept in the last 20 hours.

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 12:12

I haven't, what is sleep, right? What is a vacation? What is me time? So just letting them know that we are a part of your team, we are a part of your village, and we're here to work collaboratively with you to get you to the next level.

Timothy Zercher 12:27

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Tom. I appreciate you taking time and sharing some insights and giving some free gyms, so to speak, right now. We appreciate the work you're doing, and I wish you the best of luck as you keep growing.

Dominique Shorter-Taylor 12:41

Thank you so much, Tim. It's been a pleasure.

Timothy Zercher 12:44

Absolutely.