Timothy Zercher 0:00

All right, Zeeshah, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate you taking time out of your busy day helping to run the organization. Thank you. Thank you, Tim.

Zeeshah Ali 0:08

I'm happy to be here today. You know, let's get started.

Timothy Zercher 0:12

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, first question I always like to ask my guests, what drew you into essentially the behavioral health space?

Zeeshah Ali 0:20

So, for a long time, I had volunteered a lot in my community spaces, the Smiley community. And I saw that there was a big lack of mental health and behavioral health resources for Pakistani Muslims in general. There was a stigma against it. So as I was growing up, I got more and more involved in that mental health space. A lot was due to my mom because she was a nurse and she did a lot for the community. So I was just right along there. Went to undergrad, grad school, and in grad school, I studied behavior analysis. That's when I had my aha moment. And where I'm like, oh wow, giving people tangible things to work on, giving people tangible advice can really help shape the future of what's going on with their life. Most immigrant refugee communities go through a lot of adverse childhood conditions, and that leads to trauma, which can exhibit as neurodevelopment, right? So behavioral analysis, working with people with autism and get getting all that background, I was able to apply that to my own community and bring that back. So nonprofit and behavioral health kind of just merged for me as life went on.

Timothy Zercher 1:30

That makes complete sense. So I actually want to ask a little bit more about that. So because your background blends behavioral analysis with nonprofit leadership, how has that shaped the way that you lead teams of programs today?

Zeeshah Ali 1:42

So it's made me very human-centered and systems-oriented. And what I mean by that is behavior analysis taught me patterns. It taught me what's reinforcing behavior, where the breakdowns are, what's happening in the environment, and like how it influences the outcomes. So apply that same thinking to organizations. So when something isn't working, I don't default to blaming people. I look at the structure, the clarity, the incentives, the communication. So in behavior analytic terms, the MO, the consequence, and everything that falls in between.

Timothy Zercher 2:16

That makes a lot of sense. I bet that makes you have a good manager to work under. So at Abnagar, you are supporting survivors through some really deeply important work. How do you, as leadership, balance the priorities of operational growth with still staying grounded in the core mission that you all are trying to execute?

Zeeshah Ali 2:34

So for me, growth is only matters if it creates impact. And it's not just about expansion of services. It's so easy to chase funding, scale quickly, add programs without asking whether they're going to be effective or if it improves outcomes for survivors or the community itself. So I try to anchor my decisions in a few core questions. Does it increase safety and dignity for survivors? Does it reduce barriers to access? Are we strengthening or straining our team in the process? Those are three major environmental things that we have to look at. And that comes from my behavior analytic background. It means that I'm creating consistency so the staff aren't reinventing the wheel. It means that I'm using data to track whether our services are affected. But also culturally, it means staying close to the work, right? Asking survivors, listening to staff, and seeing where their needs are and meeting them at that point. It's making sure that the mission isn't something we just say, that we actually embody it and we feel it in how we deliver it.

Timothy Zercher 3:39

Absolutely. There's a saying, I don't remember who it was, some business guru at one point. He said, if the mission is on the wall and it's not in your heart, then it's not a mission, which I love personally. And it sounds like that's how you guys lead, which is incredible. So obviously, your organization is growing, even though you're balancing that you're doing it carefully. What have you found is the hardest part about growing your organization?

Zeeshah Ali 4:00

So in our space, it'd be great if there was no domestic violence, right? There it would be great if there was no adverse behavior effects or health effects from violence. So it's not about like acquisition or growing our client base, right? It's more about building trust in the community, educating the community, and impacting the prevention of violence, right? So most of the people that we serve find us through hospitals, through community partners, through word of mouth within immigrant and refugee communities. And what's working for us right now is deep partnership building. So it's making sure that organizations trust us, people trust us, community trust us, and that we can come in and be an add-on instead of just problem solve because we need to embed these behaviors into the community. So it's a large-scale behavior analytic project if you really think about it. It's changing a whole community's level of behaviors instead of and also the individual. But you educate the community, then you can reduce violence. We're also seeing that there's a growing importance in responsive outreach. So making sure that there's language access, representation, and community presence across different communities, and then digital availability and visibility is important as well. So we are moving forward with the digital age and making sure there's just content like this out there in the world so more people can learn about domestic violence prevention and access to dignity.

Timothy Zercher 5:38

Absolutely. I love that. So, what is one marketing tactic, marketing message that you're currently either considering launching for your communities or just watching really carefully in the communities that you serve?

Zeeshah Ali 5:49

I think a large part of domestic violence work is paying attention to the stories, right? And aligning the story to the data to show communities that hey, it's not just this random person that you don't know. It is somebody that is within your community. Dynetic violence affects all people across all genders, across all communities. It does not discriminate. And one thing I we can do is share the stories that we receive to the various communities in their language, in their cultural context. Like even in the solutions presented that we come up with the communities, it's community-based, it's community-oriented. And that's where I think the shift is happening. It's connection through narrative and clarity about why this work matters.

Timothy Zercher 6:42

Focusing on the real result and the real people that you're trying to work with to help.

Zeeshah Ali 6:47

Yeah, definitely.

Timothy Zercher 6:49

Yeah, makes complete sense. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for for giving us a little bit of your time. We appreciate it and we appreciate the work that you're doing in your communities as well. Thank you very much. Absolutely.