Timothy Zercher 0:00

All right, Nick, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate you taking time out of a sure, busy schedule.

Nicholas Hilligoss 0:05

Absolutely. I'm excited to be here.

Timothy Zercher 0:07

Yeah, I'm super excited to talk with you because we don't normally talk with people that have experience in the HR side. In this space, we often talk to more clinicians. So I'm excited for this kind of different perspective. So what drew you into behavioral health in general first? Like let's start there.

Nicholas Hilligoss 0:21

I wanted to help people or feel like I was helping people. So got started on kind of a juvenile program through the county courts. And, you know, that's been 15 years ago now, but really set out to help people and provide a positive impact in other people's lives.

Timothy Zercher 0:38

That's awesome. I find that often behavioral health is something that people just kind of stumble into. It's cool that you actually chose it specifically and went into it. So you started your career working directly with individuals, often with autism, and before moving into kind of the more HR leadership side. How did that frontline experience inform or shape how you think about supporting teams today in your current role?

Nicholas Hilligoss 1:02

Yeah. So I think it's twofold, right? I attempt to carry that experience. You know, how would I feel if I was in a different role? So that perspective taking, I think, is huge just from an onset standpoint. And then also is just a consistent reminder to say, let's get the feedback. Let's talk to them whenever possible, working through problems, new programs, new initiatives, knowing kind of how I felt in certain roles and if there were things I would have liked to speak into. I think that level of engagement has helped me see again that different side of leadership and HR and provide that to employees that I'm able to support.

Timothy Zercher 1:42

So, as you know, I'm sure in healthcare and in behavioral health organizations, culture can really directly affect patient outcomes. What is one thing that leaders often misunderstand or forget about building a strong workplace culture?

Nicholas Hilligoss 1:58

I think it's easy to forget that the small things matter, right? We think about, especially from HR, I think about the big things, the thing that everybody's talking about or has heard about, but it's the small behaviors and actions that lead up to that. So often, you know, engaging with teams, there's some flags coming in way before, you know, we make that call to HR. It's that day-to-day, hey, you made a comment that's kind of out of line, let's dig into it. So making sure, you know, leaders address that. That's the culture carrier, and it can turn very quickly from that. Absolutely.

Timothy Zercher 2:34

Pay attention to those early signs before they become fires, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes complete sense. What have you found is the hardest part of growing an organization, growing a team?

Nicholas Hilligoss 2:46

I think from a growing, right, it's looking at sustainability. So whether you know you make a big marketing push from a client perspective, you also have to have the staff, the team members to provide services. So I think making sure you have everybody in the room on any plans, you know, you should have leadership in a lot of functional areas, training, HR, clinical operations, if you've separated those, getting everybody in the room and say, this is the end goal, right? This is our point B. What do we need to think about from all of your subject matter expertise? And that's where your project plan comes in. So I think everybody should be speaking into that. And again, what I see on the HR side might not fall into a clinician side. It might heavily impact operations, but might not come up there. So I think just getting a holistic view of needs and really spending the time before we look at growing into that next step.

Timothy Zercher 3:47

Yeah. So as a marketing agency that specializes in behavioral health, we always ask some more of our marketing questions of our guests. For you, what is working best to acquire really good talent?

Nicholas Hilligoss 3:58

It's hard. So, you know, I think there's a lot of things that work, but really, again, voice of customer, what are team members looking for? More often than not, right? We think about pay and benefits and in the behavioral health field, really career pathing. So that's a huge benefit that I think has been overlooked, but is kind of coming into scope now. But really being a values-based, values-forward organization, I think that needs to be part of your interview, your application, right? Is these are our ethical code, this is what we follow, making sure that everybody that comes into the organization is on board with that. And, you know, taking that interview to do the behavioral interviewing, making sure again that we're bringing people in that if my child was getting ABA therapy, do I want this person providing that service? Early on in my career, I heard the my child test. And I think that's been one thing that's stuck with me is would you be okay with somebody saying doing that with your child, as opposed to, you know, a client or patient? So bringing that again into perspective, I think has been a huge focus for a values-based, values-forward marketing approach.

Timothy Zercher 5:11

Absolutely. I love that. I think I did a whole workshop on just the fact that behavioral health organizations need to be more culture forward in their recruiting. They need to demonstrate their values, they need to show it, they need to talk about it. I think it matters for attracting talent, not just for filtering talent, right? Like I think it has a huge impact on the filtering side too. But I think people don't understand how much it matters than attracting talent. Because people want organizations that care about values that really care about their culture.

Nicholas Hilligoss 5:39

Yeah. And I mean, in the market, again, it's competitive. That's a differentiator. If you, your values, your operations align more closely with my values as an employee, I'm more likely to go there. I'm more likely to stay and more likely to be a promoter, right? I'm gonna bring my friends and say, hey, this is a good place to work. This is a place that speaks their values, but also I feel it every day. So getting that level of engagement. And again, behavioral health, we don't always do the greatest at advocating for ourselves. So I think that's the point of push it out there, live your values and show them.

Timothy Zercher 6:14

Absolutely. Last question What is one marketing tactic that you're just really watching or even maybe considering in the marketplace right now?

Nicholas Hilligoss 6:22

I think it's been around for a while, right? But the short form, the TikToks, the Instagram reels, I think it from an employer standpoint is a strong engager, right? We get the engagement on the post, people see it. We might see some applications. And so I think from a client engagement perspective, finding ways to really leverage that without, again, breaching any ethical standards through the BACB or other entities, but leveraging it on both sides, I think would be that next step we're going to.

Timothy Zercher 6:53

That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining. We really appreciate you taking time. And I'm sure you're doing a lot of good work for your teams, bringing in the right talent. And so I'm sure you have a lot to get back to, but you really appreciate you taking time for us.

Nicholas Hilligoss 7:05

Absolutely. I appreciate it, Tim. Absolutely.